You make some good points. This gives me all I need for R value (15) and now I am preparing to frame the stud walls for electrical and then drywall. The width of a 1x3 makes it unuseable for most purposes - no room for nailing or mistakes. Insulating Basement Walls. I specifically chose 2x3 studs because they're plenty strong for this kind of shelving unit, while being a little less expensive than regular 2x4 studs, and a little lighter and easier to build. I understand that the XPS should be glued. Basically i'm sure the walls are built like that so that they hold the insulation that's the only reason. You can't frame out in 1x3 especially in a basement. It is just too flimsy and and warping with probably make it brittle. A piece of surfaced (sanded smooth) 2x4 lumber actually measures 1½ inches thick and 3½ inches wide. This is why minimum code for your Michigan location is EITHER R-10 continuous, or R-13 (cavity)= see footnote "c" under Basement R-value; If any ads are present below my answer or words underlined/colored, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed/linked to, they are there without my consent. As long as the 2x3s are placed against a solid wall, such as concrete or concrete block they will be sufficient. However, you begin to lose some stability at the shelving gets taller, so I would advise attaching the unit to the wall and also using 2x4's instead of 2x3's for increased strength. JavaScript is disabled. Since the cement block wall … To maximize my room size, I thought about using 2x3 instead of 2x4. This way, I can be prepared. Screw the foam boards directly to the concrete wall with concrete masonry screws. If your basement floor is not level (which most basement floors aren’t), building on the floor will be a challenge. Electrician I spoke with says that 2x3's would live enough room for wiring, outlets etc. My roof is pretty small, but If I was building as big as you are, I'd probably use 2x4s … If it were me I would do the 2" foam glued to the wall seams taped, double or triple up the 2" foam on the rim joist with edges sealed with expanding foam and 2x3 (or full 2x4 if you don't care about the loss of an extra 1") studs on top of the 2" foam on the walls, and call it a day. A 2x2 is good IF you attach it to the basement wall … Basement framing. If you’re building a wall … by Shannon » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:27 am, Post If using Utility Grade studs your wall can't be any taller than 10' & your studs (2x3's or 2x4's) must be no more than 16"oc. 4) Construction-strength adhesive. Use one of the suggested above and insulate the concrete wall. Hi Shannon. Nice, I have a walk out basement that I'd like to finish someday too. Yes, our free framing calculator computes the number of studs for you, but why do we use the 2x4 system at all? How to Frame an Inside Wall Against a Concrete Wall. You could use pressure-treated wood also, but I have never been able to get pressure-treated 2x3's locally. You can also piece 2x4s (for example use two 8 foot long 2x4s instead of a 16 footer) - just make sure you adequately attach to studs in wall. 2x4 stands for a system using 2-inch-by-4-inch studs made out of wood, or steel. Insulating walls framed with 2x3's. Anyway, the 2" will go up and will frame 2x4 over it. Would this change much of what you are saying regarding the 2" foam and calling it at day? We have some metal box outlets attached to the basement walls already. By code, 2x3's may be used for this purpose if the wall is no taller than 10 … The furthest part in the basement above will be the xbox/tv space with a white planked accent wall. P/T bottom plate. Basement walls take on handsome Art Deco-style using ordinary lumber--4x8 plywood sheets of rotary-sawn maple hardwood and solid poplar 2x3 battens. Is there a reason for me to tear those down and use 2x4's instead? Just finished my basement and shot 2x3's flat on the wall to fur out instead of using 2x4's to build a wall (had to use those for the dividing walls however). Yep, just screw a 2x4 to the wall wherever you want a shelf, however long. Non-bearing walls may be constructed of 2X4 or 2X3 studs spaced a maximum of 24 inches on center, or with 2X4 flat studs (long dimension of the stud parallel to the wall) spaced a maximum of 16 inches on center. There are two ways to frame a wall: you can either nail the top and bottom plates, then nail the studs in between, or build each section on the floor and then raise and nail it into place. Instead of purchasing two layers of 1" XPS, I would probably go with 2". If it were me I would do the 2" foam glued to the wall seams taped, double or triple up the 2" foam on the rim joist with edges sealed with expanding foam and 2x3 (or full 2x4 if you don't care about the loss of an extra 1") studs on top of the 2" foam on the walls… … would require more R-value to make-up for the lost heat due to the cavity insulation. plus frame wall/batts. Another option is to install one inch of XPS and then build a 2X3 or 2X4 frame wall just interior to the XPS. There is a BIG difference between 2x3 and 2x4, and I would never use 2x3 for wall framing. I took everything they had. This kind of wall is commonly found at Home Depot or Lowe’s, and is often referred to as light-gauge metal framing. These details are shown in Figure 1. I would like to frame the wall (~4ft tall) with the 2x4s turned sideways (non conventional framing side). Calculate the Studs. Its on sale at Menards and I can get 650 sq ft worth for $125 and $105 after mail in rebate. On flat, plumb walls, you can even glue&screw foam insulation to the concrete, then glue mold-resistant drywall to that. As long as the 2x3s are placed against a solid wall, such as concrete or concrete block they will be sufficient. Metal framing studs are used to support a non-load-bearing wall. I framed my basement with 2x3s (2x4 top and base plates) on all walls except those with doors, where I used 2x4s. You should frame walls at least with 2x4s and use at least R 11 or whatever minimal fiberglass insulation your local code requires 5. Hi Shannon. The wall is not cold to the touch as previously mentioned. The poplar is stained dark walnut and attached … by Saxe Point » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:25 am, Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited, All site content Copyright © 2009-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); House-Improvements.com, Ask your questions pertaining to the interior that don't fit in the above categories. My rough area is 13'-4" x 39' -5" and is concrete block. In answer about the f.b. I would say that the wall is not cold to the touch behind that furnace. I would still keep the stud center to … I’m not kidding. The joints between sheets of insulation should be sealed with tape or fiberglass mesh and mastic. If you look closely, you can see the cement wall and the 2×4 studs against the cement wall. So we need to get some in before the winter. The vertical 2x4's are placed on the side of the front corners of the shelf system. only or f.b. I would then frame a 2x4 wall against and use batt insulation. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. My inspector says no vapor barrier. Basement wall insulation also provides greater efficiency than insulating basement … Its a walkout basement. I went to Lowes today and got them to do a price match of a Menards sale. What Size Nails for Framing Walls?. Basically i'm sure the walls are built like that so that they hold the insulation that's the only reason. Behind the walls we discovered that the house had been framed using 2x3's. I would not hesitate to do it again, if the 2x3's were decent grade to start with. On the other side of the bearing wall is the furnace. Keep in mind that the vertical 2x4's will be 16 inches away from the back wall when you check for level. Hello, I am new to the forum but I have been doing a lot of research on google and it brings me to this forum so I thought I would register and ask some questions regarding me project. Free-standing walls would be sturdier out of 2x4s. I have yet to find out exactly which glue I should use. They can also help design DIY partition walls or other parts of simple metal structures. One builder is even looking to transition back over to 2x4. I am in the process of insulating and framing my basement. Jim also had a great idea to create a half wall tying in the lally columns to create a visual separation between the tv space and the remaining part of the finished basement. There was no insulation on the walls, just bare concrete. It's a light type of construction, while a heavy-type uses bricks and concrete. Do your local building codes still allow vapor barrier? … If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a. My plan as of now is to use the 2" on perimeter of basement wall. Add two studs for each wall intersection (where another wall abuts the wall you are estimating). BuiLDPro68 -. The double wall flies up. Therefore, 24"oc is fine if your wall is no more than 14' tall for 2x4's. I prefer a 2x4 for framing from floor to ceiling. Item #61149 Model #226707 This will cover everything. Post You could easily go to 24" OC on the double wall, since it's not doing anything structural. I agree that 2x4's are the std for these walls, but I've used 2x3's with a 1x6 horizontal stiff leg before, with excellent results. What you doing for subfloor? Add four studs for each 45-degree corner. I am in the process of doing a basement finish. Free-standing walls would be sturdier out of 2x4s. Multiply the total wall length (in feet) by 0.75 (for 16-inch on-center stud spacing). 2x3 lumber instead of 2x4 to frame basement? "“a 2x4 wall on the interior side of the foam insulation and fill the stud bays with fiberglass batts. There is a Menards (not sure if you have any) that has the 2" on sale this month. Post by Saxe Point » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:57 am. Step 1: Buy the Wood and the Hardware. If you absolutely need 4" of insulation, you can also put 2X3s an inch away from the concrete; 2X4s would just conduct more heat and short-circuit the insulation anyway. A 4" Type-VIII (1.25 lbs per cubic foot nominal density) roofing EPS would meet/beat the current IRC prescriptive R15 continuous insulation without using ANY fiber fluff between metal studs, and you could go with a 2x3 rather than 2x4. Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I believe Loc-Tite makes it. Use a level to make sure you attach the 2x4 to the wall level. Utility grade studs are permitted for non-bearing walls … The walls ended up perfectly flat, & stayed … Using your average of 3 monthly temps of 24*F; I really appreciate the information that you have provided. If you expect the floor to get wet frequently (wet basement or garage floor), you can seal the bottoms of all uprights before assembly with a good waterproofing, and also install the bottom shelf slightly off the floor. I ripped out the wood paneling on the basement wall that is partially below grade and discovered that the framing was made of 1x3 boards nailed to the concrete. In rough-cut condition, a 2x4 is slightly less than 2 inches thick and approximately 4 inches wide. My new home has half the walls in the basement as 2x3's with insulation. Start by gluing 3/4-inch extruded polystyrene foam insulation to fit … Nail size is more important than you might think when framing interior walls. Concrete walls may have a purpose, but beauty and warmth aren't it. I just can't believe someone … So, you need insulation to protect your investment. Masonry walls like concrete tend to be damp, dreary and unpleasant. Using the two 3 inch long screws at each connection point, you screw through the vertical 2x4's into the horizontal 2x3's. 2) Concrete nail gun and powder loads 3) Nails for the nail gun (duh!) And framing with 2x4 walls is fast, cheap, easy. You’ll need help with holding the wood together as you start to secure it, and you’ll need someone to help lift the wall into place. 2x4 stands for a system using 2-inch-by-4-inch studs made out of wood, or steel. What did you do on the stairs for insulation? My new home has half the walls in the basement as 2x3's with insulation. 2x4 walls. If you absolutely need 4" of insulation, you can also put 2X3s an inch away from the concrete; 2X4s … I have already glued 2.5 inch rigid foam insulation to the concrete walls. Framing basement walls and ceilings is the core of any basement finishing project. Hopefully the Roxul is not overkill with the 2 inch XPS. One side of the 39'-5" room is actually a concrete bearing wall. The board is about 3/4" off the wall… Metal wall studs, which are typically composed of steel, are usually intended for use in basement walls. The foam board insulation serves as a vapor barrier between the cool concrete and warmer wood framing to prevent rot and mold from forming. Not only that it’s going to rot the wood and it is also going to weaken the structure. The other, not so surprising, thing we discovered is there was no insulation. and I'm not adding any other insulation (Vancouver Island, so no real winter). Re: Basement Framing. The walls would (in theory) need to support a gambrel style roof. I am in the process of insulating and framing my basement. I'm interested in the aggrevation as maybe that will come down the road where I wish I had used all 2x4s. We were going to use 2x2's but since we were shooting them we went with the 2x3 just to make sure the lumber wouldn't split. Wall Framing – Wood or metal studs may be used. the attic has 18" of cellulose . The inner concrete bearing wall is cold to the touch but my thoughts were that it is cold because its cold in the basement. Unfaced fiberglass batts can be installed in the frame wall for additional insulation. Most wall framing is done with 2x4 or 2x6 lumber, but it may be possible to use 2x3's to build a new, non-load bearing, interior wall. Then you just build another wall around the perimeter of the house before your interior partitions. 2x4 walls. You can use plywood instead of OSB, but you'll spend more on the shelves. Learn how to insulate and frame the walls and ceilings, build soffits, frame partition walls and frame around obstructions. Favorite Answer. … If you want to save an inch or two (which you will never notice) then please frame in 2x3. Concrete walls may have a purpose, but beauty and warmth aren't it. This approach is less risky than installing fiberglass directly against the concrete. If you are installing the wall over a basement concrete wall, install rigid foam board insulation on top of the concrete walls before framing the wall with 2x2s. Properly installed, wall insulation conditions the basement from the colder underground and makes the space more comfortable, even if the basement is left unheated. this one has a double wall exterior.. (2x4 @ 16" oc outside... a one inch airspace... and 2x3 @ 16" inside.... the full basement is insulated on the walls and has 2" of foam under the slab. For a basement wall, which is not bearing any weight, I would recommend the 2x4's (some even use 2x3's) set on 16 in centers and build the wall out from the cement blocks, so that you can still use the 6 in insulation. I also live in Michigan. Is there a reason for me to tear those down and use 2x4's instead? I did forget to mention that the wall on the right hand side of those pictures is exposed. I agree that 2x4's are the std for these walls, but I've used 2x3's with a 1x6 horizontal stiff leg before, with excellent results. However, I don’t think that fiberglass batts belong in a basement. my biggest peeve is that you are drilling tons of holes in your foundation. I have the furnace on opposite side of wall too. by Saxe Point » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:57 pm, Post For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. However, I needed a pressure treated bottom plate (2X4 board) for all of my basement walls, and if code in your area requires the same than you’re going to want some things: 1) Pressure-treated plate (duh!) Problems … How to Frame an Inside Wall Against a Concrete Wall. http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...ion/files/bscinfo_511_basement_insulation.pdf, http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_sec002.htm, http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0309-renovating-your-basment, http://www.epa.gov/athens/learn2model/part-two/onsite/ex/jne_henrys_map.html, http://www.soundfootings.com/pdf/US_Map_Frost_DepthAVG.pdf, http://www.quadlock.com/technical_library/bulletins/R-ETRO_Value_of_Basement_Insulation.pdf, http://www.sfgiowa.com/weather?map=us_soil_temps, http://michigan.stateguidesusa.com/...he-average-monthly-temperatures-in-michigan?/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The first condensing surface- the inside face of the foamboard will be warmed by the room air. The f.b. I'm leaning towards no XPS with a 1/2 gap between 2x4 and wall and then just using R15 roxul. I purchased 21 2" XPS boards. … My advice: if you want a higher R-value, just install thicker rigid foam, and leave the stud bays empty." Other route could or would be using a 2" XPS with 2x3 framing and NO batt insulation in wall. Exactly what i am going to use. I have already glued 2.5 inch rigid foam insulation to the concrete walls. My thoughts were to use R11 unfaced batt inside the cavity. Got them for $24.95 a piece. Unfaced fiberglass batts can be installed in the frame wall … No, the 2x3's should work just fine for you. But either way, being safe than sorry is good with me. It was in my own home, so I got to see them at 7+ years later. Literally 2" by 3". Not sure if this is a good idea or not. Have always use 2X4's 24 on center for walls in basement. Likewise, how many 2x4 Do I need calculator? The 2" XPS is better from a moisture standpoint than adding cavity batt insulation in front also. You won't have any issues with 2x3s (other than having to install shallow electrical boxes in some cases). Worked great and there was enough space between 2x and drywall to run conduit through the walls. Ducts are often run parallel to a wall, (as shown below), when this happens you may install a 2x2 or 2x4 along the wall studs. Controlling moisture is the easiest way to eliminate mold in a basement. 2x4 2.0 Bybee says his company has relationships with most of the Top-10 national builders on code-compliant 2x4 construction. Think of the framing as a house built with 2x4 walls. This gives me all I need for R value (15) and now I am preparing to frame the stud walls for electrical and then drywall. No problem during construction, no problem now (2.5 years). What about using 2x3's instead to save an inch? Insulation seals air leaks and provides consistent thermal resistance from cold walls. For DIYers just get a good quality Styrofoam board and paste it on the wall… Re: 2x3 lumber instead of 2x4 to frame basement. it's not faster or cheaper than installing traditional 2x3 (2x4) walls; it saves you maybe 1/2 inch per wall. Yes, our free framing calculator computes the number of studs for you, but why do we use the 2x4 system at all? Check each stud for curves (called “the crown”) and mark each curve with an “X”. PL 300 Foamboard Adhesive. I'm also thinking rigid foam and 2x4 framing, but using Roxul for cavity insulation. Since I want to insulate with XPS before framing, and especially since that will put my walls further out from the block anyway, I assume I should remove the existing outlets and wiring from the block walls … It is just one side of the basement that is 39"-5'. What is your plan for flooring/sub flooring? Masonry walls like concrete tend to be damp, dreary and unpleasant. Make sure the bottom is level with the bottom of the furring drop on the other side of the duct as shown in the drawing. Building a Wall in Place. I ended up using 2x3's for the roof trusses to save weight, and still spaced them every 2 feet. Helping You to Do It Yourself! Batt insulation insulates/stops the room heat from warming, hence lowering the dew-point because the foam is now colder. I have the concrete load bearing wall that I am unsure what I am doing with. At this point, I do not know if I should use faced or unfaced batt insulation or if it really matters. I used R-13 Insulation just fine for the walls. Basement insulation is about 1/2 the R-value of above grade insulation values due to no wind, rain, or exposure because the ground/concrete wall buffers. 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